„ჩვენი შვილები არ უნდა შეეწირონ მსოფლიო გლობალური ბოროტების ამბიციურ გეგმებს“
irma cecxlaZe –
`axla saprotesto aqciebi ki ara, sastiki omi mimdinareobs saqarTvelos winaaRmdeg~, – acxadebs `qarTuli dasis~ lideri jondi baRaTuria da Tvlis, am omis SesaCereblad qudze kaci unda gamovides, radganac sxvagvarad qveyana daiRupeba. Tu ras gulisxmobs am gancxadebaSi politikosi, Tavad ganmartavs `aWarisTvis~ micemul interviuSi.
– batono jondi, ratom uwodebT saprotesto aqciebs oms?
– imitom, rom mimdinareobs omi saqarTvelos winaaRmdeg da is qarTveli 25-26 wlis biWebi, policiis formebSi, demonstrantebis winaaRmdeg rom dganan, icaven ara sazogadoebriv wesrigs, aramed saqarTvelos, – am sityvis pirdapiri gagebiT. es ar aris figuraluri gamoTqma, es marTla asea.
– visgan icaven saqarTvelos?
– saqarTvelos mtrebis Semosevisagan.
– saprotesto aqciebs xom opozicia marTavs?
– ara, geSlebaT. am SemTxvevaSi, saqme gvaqvs sul sxva fenomenTan. dRes am aqciebs marTavs msoflioSi uZlieresi, globaluri, agresiuli, konsolidirebuli boroteba liberalizmis saxeliT, romelic ukve kargavs Zalas da marcxdeba RvTis wyalobiT. brZola marto aq ar mimdinareobs, mas daundoblad ebrZvian evropaSic da amerikis SeerTebul StatebSic, sadac aris am borotebis dislokaciis mTavari adgili. swored am brZolis anareklia saqarTveloSi mimdinare omi, romelic miznad isaxavs Cveni eris ganadgurebas am sityvis pirdapiri gagebiT. amas arc malaven da Zalian mikvirs, ratom ver gebuloben, rasTan gvaqvs saqme.
– ras niSnavs `ar malaven~, pirdapir ase acxadeben?
– ki, pirdapir acxadeben. aSS-is saxelmwifo departamenti, evroCinovnikebi: gaauqmeT lgbt propagandis da ucxo qveynis agentebis winaaRmdeg kanonebi, gamoucxadeT ekonomikuri embargo da omi ruseTs. es embargo igivea, saqarTvelos winaaRmdeg imoqmedo. axalgazrdebs ar emaxsovrebaT, magram me maxsovs, Cemi megobari iyo msgavsi aqciis organizatori, samtrediaSi gadaketes rkinigza da ruseTs gamoucxades embargo. im TveSi saqarTveloSi verc purs, verc sapons an sxva produqts iSovidi. . . quCaSi rom dganan, isini amas iTxoven axla. Tqven rogor warmogidgeniaT qarTvelebis cxovreba lgbt Temis pirobebSi? an rogor iarsebebs saxelwifo, Tu ucxo qveynebidan Semosul fuls ar gaakontrolebs? an ruseTTan saomari moqmedebebis warmoeba ioli hgoniaT?! es xom sruli absurdia, ra xdeba ukrainaSi, ver xedaven?! saqarTvelos masze meti resursi aqvs?! 50-milioniani qveyana iyo ukraina, sanam iq liberalizmis afeTqeba moxdeboda. axla oci milioniRa SemorCaT, erTi milioni, mxolod, axalgazrda samxedro CaexocaT. warmogidgeniaT, ra uqnes evropaSi resursebiT yvelaze did saxelmwifos? 90–ianebi monagonia, rac imaT sWirT dRes. yvelafer amas rom SeajamebT, gasagebi gaxdeba, rom swored saqarTvelos gamoucxades omi da zogi Segnebulad, zogic – Seugneblad, qveynis dasamxobad ibrZvis dRes quCaSi.
– saSineli sayurebelia is, rac dRes Cven irgvliv xdeba, gansakuTrebiT axalgazrdebi, romlebic sakuTar Tavze iReben dartymebs. . .
– amitom vTqvi, rom gare mterTan gvaqvs saqme. am studentebs ucxoeli instruqtorebi marTaven. zogi rusicaa, ukraineli, ingliseli, germaneli. qvebis, petardebis da molotovis kokteilebis msrolelebad Cvens bavSvebs iyeneben. Tavad CrdilSi imyofebian, rom ar `Cavardnen~ da ar gamJRavndes maTi vinaoba. omis SemTxvevaSi ki, es xalxi isev instruqtorad darCeba, xolo wina xazze kvlav Cvens axalgazrdebs garekaven fsevdopatriotuli lozungebiT. ra unda vqnaT, Cveni bavSvebi davuTmoT amaT?! es xom danaSauli iqneba, isini, yvela, Cveni Svilebi arian, amitom unda vecadoT, am borotebas xelidan gamovglijoT.
– mainc ra ewodeba am `borotebas~, Tu ganzogadebulad saubrobT?
– ara, sruliad konkretuli organizaciaa. ewodeba globaluri liberaluri partia, romelic aSS-Si `demokratebis~ saxeliT moixsenieba, germaniaSi – `social-demokratebis~, safrangeTSi mas makroni da misi garemocva liderobs, britaneTSi – `leiboristebi~ arian, magram am wuTSi maT Soris gansxvaveba aRar aris, konservatorebic da liberalebic SeierTes. am qveynebis specsamsaxurebi da dazverva muSaobs axla CvenTan. aq eTnikuri sazRvari, praqtikulad, waSlilia, rusic bevri hyavT.
– Tqveni sityvebiT, wamyvani qveynebi arian CarTuli am brZolaSi?
– ki, kacobrioba gaiyo or nawilad. erT mxares dganan agresiuli liberalebi, romelTac me vuwodeb msoflios globalur borotebas, radgan aseTi cbieri, mzakvari, borotad gonieri Zala jer ar axsovs istorias. barikadis aqeT mxares ki vdgavarT qarTvelebi, arabebi, Turqebi, amerikelebi, evropelebi, is xalxi, romlebic adamianis saxis SenarCunebas vcdilobT.
– anu es brZola mxolod saqarTveloSi ar mimdinareobs?
– ara, ras ambobT, yvelgan mimdinareobs. . . jvari gveweros da amden xans saqarTvelo, sxvebTan SedarebiT, ufro Rirseulad gamodioda am brZolidan, radgan SenarCunebuli gvaqvs marTlmadidebloba da konsolidirebuli varT religiis, qristes irgvliv.
– rodemde gagrZeldeba es globaluri brZolebi?
– axla `eseni~ marcxdebian. nawili ukve damarcxda SeerTebul StatebSi, evropaSic mimdinareobs es procesebi. imedi maqvs, sabolood dasustdebian da miimalebian, ase rom, Cvenc unda gavimarjvoT im adamianebTan erTad, romlebic adamianuri arsis, saxis SenarCunebas cdiloben.
– gamodis, Tqven gamarTlebulad migaCniaT premier irakli kobaxiZis mier evrokavSirTan molaparakebebis gaxsnis sakiTxis 2028 wlamde gadadeba?
– iciT ra, kobaxiZem araferi gadado. evropam gamoacxada, rom 2030 wlamde aCerebs evrokavSiris gafarToebis process: ukrainisTvis, moldovisTvis, serbeTisTvis, CernogoriisTvis, saqarTvelosTvis da a.S. anu xuTi-eqvsi wlis ganmavlobaSi saerTod aRar ganixilaven aravis wevrobas. es kobaxiZem ki ara, evropam gamoacxada, ris pasuxadac, premierma Tqva, radgan aseTi situaciaa, Cven 2028 wlamde movemzadebiT da am process ori wliT adre gavaaqtiurebTo. . . wera-kiTxvis mcodnec sakmarisia, es rom gaigos. Tumca, Tqven ggoniaT, vinc axla quCaSi dgas, ar esmis? ician, magram saqme arc am gancxadebaSi da arc kobaxiZeSia, qarTuli igav-araki gaixseneT, mglis da batknis dialogi da mglis pasuxi – „Seni SeWma rom minda mizezad isic kmarao~. . . SeWma da ganadgureba, qarTvelobis damxoba rom undaT, mizezad kobaxiZis naTqvami frazac sakmarisia maTTvis. Aaxalgazrdebi sxvanairad rom ver gaiyvanes quCaSi, axla evropisken gzas gviketaveno da. . . esenic gamoiSalnen gareT, aRar Caukvirdnen, vin ra Tqva da ratom. . . Tumca rom egonaT, imdenic ver gaabriyves. aqciebis pikze 1000–1500 kacze meti ar gadis. ra xdeba SigniT, kargad vici, arc xatvis da musikis maswavlebeli, politikosi var, Cemo kargo. xuTasi kaci hyavT gawvrTnili, romelic qvebs da molotovis kokteilebs isvris da instruqtorebis brZanebebis mixedviT, gegmazomierad esxmis Tavs samarTaldamcvelebs – surT gamoiwvion sapasuxo Seteva da qulebi daiweron sazogadoebis gulubryvilo wreebSi.
– ra kavSiri aqvs am procesebTan ruseTs?
– mTeli am warmodgenis erTaderTi mTavari mizania, ekonomikuri embargo davuwesoT ruseTs, ar SemovitanoT xorbali, marcvleuli, rZis produqcia da a.S. maSin, rodesac Tavad mSvenivrad maragdebian ruseTisgan. aSS-Si xorblis 30% ruseTidan Sedis. uari vTqvaT energomatareblebze, ar gvqondes Suqi, gazi, lojistika gaCerdes da amiT davazaraloT. . . moskovi. vin dazaraldeba – moskovi Tu Cven?
– davuSvaT, gaimarjva opoziciam da gadadga es mTavroba, Semdeg marTla dauweseben ruseTs sanqciebs?
– ki, gamoucxadeben, es xom maT davalebuli aqvT, damoukideblebi ar arian. ramdenime dReSi dauweseben ruseTs sanqciebs, aba, ras izamen? Semdeg ki omSi CaerTvebian. ruseTi or-sam saTSi gaanadgurebs Cvens samxedro infrastruqturas, axlandeli opozicia ki Semoyris `boevikebs~ siriidan da brZolas gaagrZelebs partizanulad. xom gviTxres, tyeSi gadiT da iqidan eomeT rusebs, Tu pirispir ver daZlevTo. . . mokled rom vTqvaT, saqarTvelo gadaiqceva ruseT-amerikis omis poligonad, teritoriad, sadac awarmoeben omebs zemZlavri saxelmwifoebi. . . hoda, morCa kino. . . es yvelaferi xmamaRlaa Tqmuli da gamocxadebuli, aravis daufaravs saTqmeli, ubralod, unda akinZo, daalago da daskvna gaakeTo. blinkenma ar Tqva, rusebs embargo dauweseTo? evrokavSirSi pirdapir gamogvicxades, aseT laCrul qcevas, omi ar girCevniaTo? ase Tavisuflad gveubnebodnen, sul ar ainteresebdaT, ra dReSi Cavardeboda Cveni mosaxleoba, iseve, rogorc waaqezes ukraina da Semdeg aCvenebdnen daxocili bavSvebis fotoebs. . . ra qnes 2008 wels? Caxoces biWebi. dagvexmara vinme? saakaSvilis generaliteti buCqebs amofarebuli garboda, ministrebi ki sarfis gamSveb punqtze rigSi idgnen. . .
– ra komentars gaakeTebT salome zurabiSvilis gancxadebze?
– maqsimalurad koreqtuli viqnebi – suleluri da sasacilo gancxadebaa, rac SeiZleba mxolod fsiqologiuri aSlilobis mqone, afeqtur mdgomareobaSi myofma araadekvaturma adamianma gaakeTos. arCevnebi gayalbebulic rom iyos, misi vada ratom grZeldeba, amixsnas. konstitucias vicavo, rom ambobs, yavli gauvida da ratom ar midis?.. rbilad rom vTqvaT, cota ucnauri qali kia. . .
– rac Seexeba prezidentis postze yavelaSvilis kandidaturas, rogor SeafasebdiT?
– piradad vicnob, Zalian kargi adamiania, nakiTxi kacia. ar vici, misi diplomebi ar gadamimowmebia, magram aqtiuri deputati iyo erovnuli mniSvnelobis sakiTxebSi. yvela kargad icnobs da amitom gamikvirda es negativi, rac usamarTlod augores. vnaxoT, rogori prezidenti iqneba da Tu ar mogvewoneba, Semdeg visaubroT.
– daskvnis saxiT, iqneb SeafasoT is safrTxe, romlis winaSec dgas dRes saqarTvelo.
– TvalnaTliv Cans, rom safrTxe marTlac Zalian didi da realuria. amitom mTeli qarTuli sazogadoebis istoriaSi jer arnaxuli, maqsimaluri konsolidaciaa saWiro. TiToeuli Cvengani unda gadaiqces saqarTvelos propagandistul jariskacad, unda avuxsnaT TiToeul Cvens mezobels, megobars, naTesavs, vinc realobas ver aRiqvams saTanadod, ra xdeba Cvens Tavs da ra gvelis `amaTi~ gamarjvebis SemTxvevaSi, rom xvalindeli dRe aRar gveqneba. Cveni Svilebi ar unda Seewiron msoflio globaluri borotebis ambiciur gegmebs.