„საქართველო მაქსიმალურად უნდა შეეცადოს, არ ამოვარდეს საერთაშორისო მოცემულობიდან“

irma cecxlaZe 577 20 45 63 –

`11 marts, saudis arabeTis qalaq jidaSi, ukrainul da amerikul delegaciebs Soris Catarebul Sexvedras kievi pozitiurad afasebs, Tumca ruseTi acxadebs, rom kompromisi mxolod misi pirobebis dakmayofilebiT moxdeba. evropeli liderebi aRniSnaven, rom `burTi ruseTis moedanzea~ da axla mxolod kremlzea damokidebuli, dasruldeba Tu ara omi ukrainaSi. saudis arabeTSi kievisa da vaSingtonis warmomadgenlebis 8-saaTiani Sexvedris Semdeg cnobili gaxda, rom ukrainam miiRo aSS-is mier SeTavazebuli winadadeba, romelic 30-dRian cecxlis Sewyvetas gulisxmobs. gavrcelebuli informaciiT, donald trampi volodimir zelenskis TeTr saxlSi xelaxla umaspinZlebs. Tu gavixsenebT, 28 Tebervals trampisa da zelenskis Sexvedram rogori xmauris fonze Caiara, trampma zelenskis TeTri saxlis datoveba mosTxova da mogvianebiT `diqtatoric~ uwoda, axali Sexvedris garSemo interesi kidev ufro izrdeba.

am da sxva sakiTxebze gTavazobT intervius politolog aslan lorTqifaniZesTan, eqskluziurad gazeT `aWarisTvis~

– Tu SeiZleba, saubari daviwyoT trampis da zelenskis pirveli SexvedriT, rogor daakomentarebdiT maT saubars?

– ovalur kabinets ar axsovs msgavsi SemTxveva. aseTi polemika, rogorc wesi, imarTeba daxurul Sexvedrebze. Tumca am SemTxvevam sazogadoebis farTo wres naTlad aCvena, rogori mkacria saerTaSoriso politika da rogoria didi da patara saxelmwifoebis interesTa Widilis saxe. did qveyanasTan SedarebiT patara qveyana, molaparakebebis procesSi, ver gaxdeba misi Tanaswori da mouwevs iseT daTmobebze wasvla, romelic mis nacionalur interesebs ewinaaRmdegeba. amgvar procesSi mas zurgs unda umagrebdnen sxva didi aqtorebi.
– trampi xazgasmiT aRniSnavda, rom ar miaCnda zelenski gmirad. rogor fiqrobT, ris miRweva surda am mxriv amerikis prezidents?
– politikosebis popularoba da regresi erTmaneTs enacvleba. zelenskis popularobis zenitSi vambobdiT, rom mis politikas warmateba ver eqneboda. am azrs gviTvlidnen e.w. prorusul narativad. saqarTveloSi migvaCvies aRqmebiT cxovrebas da dagvaviwyes realobis SegrZneba. es arasamTavrobo organizaciebis mravalaTeulmilioniani ucxouri grantebis xarjvam gamoiwvia. maTi saqmianobis Sefaseba vrceli Temaa da masze mogvianebiT SegviZlia ufro dawvrilebiT visaubroT. ukrainam Zalian didi Secdoma dauSva, roca konstituciidan amoiRo neitraliteti da natoSi integracia ganizraxa. formalurad, nebismieri saxelmwifos suverenuli uflebaa, gawevriandes ama Tu im saxelmwifoTa erTobaSi, Tundac es iyos samxedro bloki Tumca arsebobs misi politikuri, geopolitikuri konteqsti, romlis argaTvaliswinebas saxelmwifoebisTvis moaqvs iseTi katastrofuli Sedegebi, rogoric ukrainam iwvnia. ukraina evropis yvelaze didi qveyana iyo, 45-milioniani mosaxleobiT. amavdroulad, igi ruseTis saxmeleTo mezobelia, umdidresi niadagiTa da bunebrivi resursebiT gamoirCeva. ruseTisTvis ukrainis gawevrianeba konkurent natos samxedro blokSi warmoadgens misi usafrTxoebis problemas da amas arasdros dauSvebda, arc momavalSi dauSvebs. es daadastura prezidentma trampmac. kanada an meqsika Tu ganizraxavs aSS-is konkurent rusul an Cinur samxedro banakSi gawevrianebas, zustad im Sedegs miiRebs, rac ukrainas daatyda Tavs – aSS-is samxedro intervencia gardauvali iqneba. zelenskis da misi winamorbedi sxva mmarTvelebis Secdoma iyo ruseTsa da dasavleTs Soris geopolitikuri balansis darRveva. am qmedebam ara marto ukrainas, aramed mTel msoflios moutana arastabiluroba, moarRvia isedac myife saerTaSoriso politikuri sistema da yvela qveynis nomer pirveli amocana gaxda usafrTxoebis uzrunvelyofa, samxedro biujetis zrda. es mZime dartymas miayenebs msoflio ekonomikas, romlis nawili saqarTvelocaa. ukrainis bunebrivi resursebis aSS-is sakuTrebaSi gadacemiT aSS-is prezidents surs im danaxarjebis amoReba, romelic ukrainis omis dafinansebiT gaiRo da Tan ise, rom ver aiRebs ukrainis dacvaze pasuxismgeblobas, xolo zelenskis surs, es simdidre ukrainas darCes da misi mopovebidan miRebuli mogebis naxevari aSS-s gauyos mxolod im SemTxvevaSi, Tu aSS uzrunvelyofs ukrainis usafrTxoebas. trampi-zelenskis dapirispirebac am gansxvavebul interesebs ukavSirdeba, Tumca rogorc iciT, miaRwies SeTanxmebas da axla ruseTis sityvis molodinSi arian.
– sakmaod gansxvavebuli azrebi daafiqsires am kuTxiT evropis qveynebmac. rogor fiqrobT, miaRweven SeTanxmebas omis Sewyvetis sakiTxze?
– omma, ukrainis Semdeg, yvelaze didi ziani evrokavSirs miayena. man droebiT dakarga iafi, rusuli energoresursebi, romlebic uzrunvelyofda mis mier warmoebuli produqciis konkurentunarianobas. samxedro xarjebic mZime tvirTad daawva wevri qveynebis ekonomikebs. maTi erTobliobis Sedegad, evrokavSiris ekonomika TiTqmis aRar izrdeba. afrikel da axlo aRmosavleTis migrantebs SeuerTda ukraineli migrantebis didi talRac. evrokavSiris wevr qveynebs Soris gaizarda azrTa sxvadasxvaoba. am mizezebis Sedegia is, rom evrokavSiris monawileoba ukrainis samSvidobo molaparakebebSi meorexarisxovani funqciis matarebelia. omi Sewydeba, Tumca misi Sedegebi ukrainisTvis Zalian mZime iqneba. faqtia, rom is dakargavs teritoriebis nawils da natoSi misi gawevrianeba ver moxerxdeba. miuxedavad dapirebebisa, rTuli iqneba misi evrokavSirSi gawevrianebac. ukrainis aRdgenas kolosaluri Tanxebi sWirdeba da am Tanxebis gaRebis sakiTxze evrokavSiris qveynebs gansxvavebuli mosazrebebi aqvT.

– rogor daaxasiaTebdiT trampis da putinis urTierTobas am etapze?

– trampi arcTu usafuZvlod Tvlis, rom misi mTavari geopolitikuri konkurenti CineTia. misi gaTvlaa, ruseTTan aSS-is daaxloebis gziT, ruseTi iqces CineTis pirveladi Sekavebis funqciis matareblad. ruseTi CineTisTvis, marTlac, warmoadgens bunebriv winaRobas dasavleTiT gavlenis gafarToebis mimarTulebiT, miuxedavad imisa, rom es ori qveyana erTmaneTTan partniorul urTierTobaSia. ukrainis omma biZgi misca msoflio hegemonobisTvis mswraf saxelmwifoebs Soris gavlenis sferoebis xelaxal gadanawilebas. axla es istoriuli procesi mimdinareobs.
– ra pozicias iWers Cveni xelisufleba mTel am qaosSi?
– drom aCvena, rom saqarTvelos xelisuflebis TavSekaveba ukrainis konfliqtis dros iyo swori nabiji da am politikam saqarTvelos moutana mSvidoba da ekonomikuri ganviTareba. dasavleli aqtorebis nawils surda, Cven `wavSvelebodiT~ ukrainas da iseTive Sesawiri paiki vyofiliyaviT, rogoradac mogvianebiT ukraina aqcies. Cven SevuerTdiT saerTaSoriso sanqciebs, Tumca ar davaweseT ruseTTan erovnuli anu damatebiTi ekonomikuri sanqciebi. es Cvens ekonomikas Seuqmnida problemebs. ukrainelebs gavugzavneT, 1 sul mosaxleze, yvelaze meti humanitaruli daxmareba, ruseTis winaaRmdeg araerTi saerTaSoriso sarCelis Tanasponsori viyaviT, Tumca ar uzrunvelvyaviT qarTveli moxaliseebis saqarTvelos aeroportebidan organizebuli gagzavna, arc afxazeTsa da cxinvalis regionSi daviwyeT samxedro moqmedebebi, romliskenac zogierTi ucxoeli politikosi mogviwodebda. am qmedebebis ganxorcieleba Cveni omSi CarTvis maprovocirebeli iqneboda.
– `ocnebis~ TiTqmis yvela prognozi da damokidebuleba gamarTlda. amerikis prezidenti mwyralad uyurebs evropas, ramdenad aris amaze damokidebuli saqarTvelos samomavlo evrointegracia?
– saqarTvelosTvis ualternativoa diversificirebuli sagareo politika. qarTveli eri da saqarTvelo, rogorc saxelmwifo, amgvarma balansma gadaarCina. Cven msoflio Tu regionalur moTamaSeebTan imgvari sagareo politika unda vawarmooT, romliTac erTmaneTs davabalansebT. saqarTvelos xelisufleba am obieqtur mocemulobas adekvaturad pasuxobs. saqarTvelo patara qveyanaa, Cven gadarCenisTvis vibrZviT saukuneebis ganmavlobaSi. natoSi saqarTvelos gawevrianeba Zalian kargi saSualeba iqneboda usafrTxoebis, investiciebisa da Sesabamisad, ekonomikuri winsvlisTvis. Cven es survili konstituciaSic avsaxeT, Tumca natoSi saqarTvelos integraciis procesma ar unda mogvitanos ukrainis msgavsi Sedegi, radgan es SesaZleblobis fanjara am qveynisTvis daixura da am procesma, usafrTxoebis nacvlad, moitana ngreva, teritoriebis dakargva da qveynidan mosaxleobis masobrivi migracia. saqarTvelos mouwevs natosTan TanamSromloba masSi gawevrianebis gareSe. dRevandeli geopolitikuri mocemuloba sxva gzas ar tovebs. nato mzad ar aris saqarTvelos misaRebad, anu ar aqvs Sesabamisi geopolitikuri simZlavreebi da didi xnis ganmavlobaSi ase gagrZeldeba. aravin icis, momavalSi ra bedi elis am samxedro bloks, Tu mas aSS datovebs. evrokavSiri, ZiriTadad, ekonomikur safuZvelze mdgari organizaciaa. saqarTvelo am organizaciasTan urTierTobiT dainteresebulia. evroparlamentis gadawyvetilebiT, evrointegraciis procesi SeCerebulia, Tumca es droebiTi gadawyvetilebaa. Zalian bundovania evrokavSiris am formiT arsebobis momavali, Tumca saqarTvelo am kontinentis nawilia da evropul qveynebTan kargi urTierTobebi Cvens interesebSia. Cveni satranzito funqciis srulfasovnad gamoyeneba SeuZlebelia evrokavSirisa da CineTis tvirTbrunvis gareSe. saqarTvelo yovelTvis mzad iqneba evrokavSirSi gasawevrianeblad, Tu msgavsi survili da SesaZleblobebi evrokavSirs eqneba. ukrainis movlenebi evrokavSiris gafarToebaze uaryofiTad aisaxeba, Tumca saqarTvelos somxeTTan erTad SeuZlia evrokavSirTan mWidro kavSirebis damyareba. evrokavSiris dRevandeli mmarTveli rgoli Seicvleba, radgan maTi politika mTlianad mowyvetilia realur safuZvels. amitomacaa, rom maTTan aSS-is prezidenti ar urTierTobs da kavSiri mxolod evrokavSiris wevri qveynebis mTavrobebTan aqvs. aSS aRar apirebs evrokavSirTan arafrismomcemi, Zvirad Rirebuli satarifo da usafrTxoebis politikis SenarCunebas.
– ra pozicias ikavebs opozicia? ras fiqrobT maT mier isev wamowyebul saprotesto aqciebze, risi miRweva surT?
– saqarTveloSi opoziciuri partiebi ar arian damoukidebeli politikuri Zalebi. isini imarTebian im evropuli Tu amerikuli organizaciebidan, `dif sTeiTidan~, romelTac surT, saqarTvelo gamoiyenon ukrainis msgavsi qmedebebisTvis. am yvelafris Sedegia is, rom opoziciuri politikuri partiebi qarTvel amomrCevlebze muSaobas nakleb dros uTmoben da damokidebuli arian ucxo Zalebze, ver pasuxoben amomrCevelTa umravlesobis dakveTas. maTi warumateblobis mizezi swored es gaxlavT. saprotesto aqciebi milevad reJimSia da maTi moTxovnebi acdenilia rogorc qveynis Sida, ise sagareo politikur mdgomareobas. vadamdeli saparlamento arCevnebis moTxovna yovelgvar safuZvels moklebulia.

– socialur qselSi gamoqveynebuli postis mixedviT bodiSis moxdas iTxovT. Tu SeiZleba, daakonkretoT – ratom?

– omis dawyebidan dRemde opoziciuri partiebi, arasamTavrobo organizaciebi, mediasaSualebebi da maTi ufrosebi ucxoeTidan ukrainis Temas iyenebdnen saqarTvelos xelisuflebaze zewolisTvis da mosaxleobas arwmunebdnen, rom ukraina `Tavisufali samyaros~ daxmarebiT daamarcxebda ruseTs, gawevriandeboda evrokavSirsa da natoSi, xolo saqarTvelo darCeboda am procesis miRma, Tu ukrainas yvela SesaZlo daxmarebas ar aRmouCenda. am mxardaWeraSi Sedioda: ruseTisTvis damatebiTi ekonomikuri sanqciebis daweseba, savaWro-ekonomikuri urTierTobebis Sewyveta, pirdapir frenebze uari, savizo reJimis SemoReba, omSi moxaliseebis organizebulad gagzavna, iaraRiT daxmareba da a.S. xelisuflebisgan iTxovdnen, okupanti ruseTis mimarT agresiul ritorikas. gaxsovT, Tu rogor imeorebdnen, TuTiyuSebiviT, ucxoeTSi gavrcelebul ucenzuro terminebs, ucxouri droSebiT agresiuli qmdebebic gvaxsovs. . . am qcevebis erToblioba gamoiwvevda Cvens CarTvas ruseTTan samxedro dapirispirebaSi da imgvari Sedegi dadgeboda, rac ukrainaSi. Zalian gagvimarTla, rom es politikuri da interesjgufebi ar iyvnen xelisuflebaSi. am adamianebma unda aRiaron, rom Secdnen da saqarTvelos da ukrainis moqalaqeebs bodiSi mouxadon. ukrainelebi Cveni didi xnis megobari eria, aravisze naklebad maTi mdgomareoba ar gvaRelvebda da gvaRelvebs. isini gamoiyenes did politikur TamaSebSi ucxo qveynebis politikurma Zalebma da maT mier xeldasmulma ukrainis xelisuflebam. Cven maT, am garedan marTul procesSi, ver gavyvebodiT, radgan gvqonda 2008 wlis agvistos omis gamocdilebac. saqarTvelom ver miiRo sakmarisi daxmareba ruseTTan omis dros, dasavlur qveynebs ekonomikuri sanqciebic ki ar dauwesebiaT ruseTisTvis da mokle droSi masTan daiwyes e.w. gadatvirTvis politika. am omis Semdeg, 2009 wlis 9 maiss, moskovSi, wiTel moedanze, kremlis win, faSizmze gamarjvebis aRlumSi, rusul jarTan erTad, monawileobdnen ukrainuli, polonuri, britanuli, franguli da sxva evropuli qveynebis SeiaraRebuli Zalebi. . .
– ramdenad aris SesaZlebeli omis uaxloes vadebSi dasruleba da ra ekonomikuri efeqti eqneba amas saqarTvelosTvis?
– omi mokle vadaSi ver dasruldeba, Tumca ukrainis mTavari donori aSS aqtiur nabijebs dgams. miRweulia SeTanxmeba ukrainasTan da Sedegi aucileblad gamoCndeba, Tumca es ukrainisa da evrokavSirisTvis iqneba Zalian mZime. ukrainas mouwevs teritoriebis daTmoba, arCevnebis Catareba da natoSi gawevrianebaze uaris Tqma. is dakargavs sakuTar bunebriv resursebze wvdomasac ki. aTwleulebi dasWirdeba ukrainis dangreuli dasaxlebebis aRdgenas, am qveynis ganaRmvas, misi ekonomikis dabrunebas omamdel niSnulamde. rac Seexeba saqarTvelos da msoflio ekonomikur sistemas, omis dasrulebas eqneba dadebiTi efeqti, radgan nebismieri am masStabis samxedro moqmedeba did zians ayenebs mTeli msoflios ekonomikas. Tu rogor mivida ukraina ruseTTan farTomasStabian dapirispirebamde da Semdeg rogor darCa daucveli, morigi gakveTilia saqarTvelosTvis. Cven Zalian frTxilad unda viyoT iseT TemebTan, romlebic msoflio hegemonobisken mswrafi da regionaluri liderobisTvis mebrZoli didi qveynebis interesebisTvis sasicocxlo mniSvnelobisaa. saqarTvelo maqsimalurad unda Seecados, ar amovardes saerTaSoriso mocemulobidan da lavirebis, balansirebis politikiT awonasworebdes did moTamaSeebs. es asec xdeba. amgvari sagareo politika migviyvans ganviTarebamde, warmatebebamde.