„დასავლეთს ვაჩვენებთ, რომ ამ ქვეყანაში უსამართლობას არ შევეგუებით“

laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –

saprotesto aqciebi qveyanaSi ager ukve meoTxe Tvea, grZeldeba da cxadad warmoaCens, rom saqarTveloSi politikuri veli mkveTrad polarizebulia. rogor ganviTardeba procesebi? daZabulobis ganmuxtisTvis raa gasakeTebeli? am da sxva aqtualur sakiTxebze gvesaubreba `koalicia cvlilebisTvis~ aWaris organizaciis erT-erTi lideri levan gorgilaZe.

– rogor SeafasebT dRes qveyanaSi mimdinare procesebs?
– qveyanaSi gansakuTrebiT rTuli politikuri viTarebaa srulad polarizebulia mosaxleoba, gansakuTrebiT – bolo wlebSi, vgulisxmob 2020 wlis arCevnebis Semdgom periods, maSinac gayalbda arCevnebi did qalaqebSi, sadac mosaxleobas adgilobrivi TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebi waarTves, maT Soris baTumSic rac moxda, yvelas kargad gvaxsovs: gardacvlili deputati, mosyidvis mcdelobebi, represiebi, adamianebis cema da a. S. 2024 wlis saparlamento arCevnebis Semdgomi periodi kidev ufro savalalo aRmoCnda qveynisTvis – `qarTuli ocnebis~ ZalisxmeviT, polarizebulia politikuri veli. momavalma xelisufalma yvelaferi unda gaakeTos imisTvis, rom am qveyanaSi Tanacxovreba SeZlon gansxvavebuli orientaciis da politikuri mrwamsis adamianebma.
– Tqveni da, saerTod, opoziciis braldebebi xelisuflebis mimarT ramdenad safuZvliani da argumentirebulia?
– es kiTxva ritorikuli momeCvena, Tumca safuZvliania. qarTvelma xalxma sakuTari TvaliT ixila, Tu rogor gayalbda arCevnebi, Cven viyaviT saarCevno velze da ganwyobebs vxedavdiT, SedarebiT indiferentul soflebSic ki xelisuflebisadmi ganwyoba radikalurad Secvlili iyo. rac Seexeba argumentebs, braldebebTan dakavSirebiT Cveni argumentebi dasvleTma gaiziara, aSS-ma, evrokavSirma ar aRiares 2024 wlis arCevnebi legitimurad. yvelafers, rasac viTxovdiT da ris gamoc vdgavarT quCaSi, TvalnaTliv xedavs evropa da amerika, aravis uTqvams, arasworad dgaxarT quCaSio, amitomac vTqvi, rom safuZvliania Cveni argumentebi arCevnebTan mimarTebiT.
– xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebi acxadeben, rom opoziciis Sefasebebi, sxvadasxva sakiTxTan dakavSirebiT, usafuZvloa. magaliTad, premier-ministri kobaxiZe acxadebs, rom qveyana Tanmimdevrulad viTardeba. . .
– saerTod politikas qmnis rogorc politikosi, aseve, samoqalaqo sazogadoeba. premier-ministrs, ra Tqma unda, amas ver daajereb, gamomdinare iqidan, rom politika maT warmoudgeniaT sakuTari keTildReobisTvis sakeTebel saqmed. rac Seexeba gancxadebas, rom Tanmimdevrulad viTardeba qveyana, cxadia, logikas moklebulia. vxedavT, rogor ateroreben mosaxleobas, inflacia imatebs, politikosebs ofisebSi uvardebian, gansxvavebul azrs axSoben, es ar aris qveynis Tanmimdevrulad ganviTareba. . . deputati iqnebi Tu ministri, ar unda iyo mxolod Seni amomrCevlisTvis, unda iyo yvela politikuri mrwamsis adamianisTvis. samwuxarod, arsebuli xelisufleba mxolod sakuTari amomrCevlis azrs iTvaliswinebs, arada, gayalbebuli arCevnebis Sedegebic rom aviRoT, minimum, naxevari saqarTvelo `qarTul ocnebas~ mxars ar uWers. mokled, irakli kobaxiZe aris TviTgamocxadebuli premier-ministri da misi gancxadeba arafers niSnavs.
– rogorc cnobilia, mesame prezidents sasamarTlom ganaCeni gamoutana. cxadia, opoziciam uaryofiTad Seafasa es ganaCeni, mmarTveli partiis TqmiT ki gadawyvetileba obieqturia. ras fiqrobT?
– am sasamarTlos verdiqts obieqturad afasebs mxolod mmarTveli partia. erTi SexedviT, mixeil saakaSvili Tavis Secdomas imkis. . . sasamarTlo `nacmoZraobis~ dros unda gamxdariyo iseTi, rogorsac viTxovT dRes da mmarTveli partia veRar SeZlebda sasamarTlo sistemis modrekas. mixeil saakaSvils rom Tavi davaneboT, uamravi arasaTanadod Sefasebuli saqme vnaxeT. TiTqmis ar darCa keTilsindisieri mosamarTle qveyanaSi da sasamarTlo gadaqceulia mmarTveli gundis kantorad. rac Seexeba mixeil saakaSvilis saqmes, am sasamarTlos pirobebSi aravin unda gasamarTldes da arc mixeil saakaSvili. darwmunebuli var, `qarTuli ocneba~ male datovebs mmarTvelobas. `qarTuli ocnebis~ arcerTi wevris am sasamarTloSi gasamarTlebis momxre ar viqnebi, yvela unda warsdges kanonis winaSe samarTliani sasamarTlos pirobebSi da arc mixeil saakaSvilia gamonaklisi.
– gverds ver avuvliT mmarTveli partiis mier daanonsebul sxvadasxva kanons. Tqveni azri amis Sesaxeb. . .
– mmarTveli gundi (brWyalebSia) CemTvis aris TviTgamocxadebuli, deputatebic, ministrebic, gamomdinare iqidan, rom mitacebuli aqvT saxelmwifo. qarTvelma xalxma sul sxva arCevani gaakeTa. kanonebi, mmarTveli partia rom gvTavazobs da aanonsebs, aris sruliad aralegitimuri da darwmunebuli var, male Seicvleba.
– sxvaTa Soris, mmarTvelma partiam parlamentSi Seqmna sagamoZiebo komisia, romelic yofili xelisuflebis, `nacmoZraobis~ saqmianobas gamoiZiebs. . .
– xelisuflebas, romelic meoTxe vadiTaa saTaveSi da wina mTavrobaze saubrobs, niSnavs, rom araferi gaukeTebia qveynisTvis. cota fantasmagoriulia es yvelaferi. . . samwuxaroa, rom viRacebisTvis es propaganda kidev muSaobs. `nacmoZraoba~ SeiZleba ar mogwondes, SeiZleba – mogwondes, SeiZleba, karg SemTxvevaSi, mixeil saakaSvilTan asocirdebodes, cud SemTxvevaSi – kezeraSvilTan, merabiSvilTan, magram dRes `nacmoZraoba~ viRacam SefuTos monstrad, ubralod, sasaciloa, gamomdinare iqidan, rom `nacmoZraoba~ erTpirovnulad ver mova xelisuflebaSi, meorea – Tu aqamde mTavari opoziciuri Zala iyo, arCevnebmac cxadyo, rom axla ase aRar aris.

– ra fazas gadis axla protesti, qveynis premier-ministrma ganacxada, rom opozicia suls Rafavs. . .

– premier-ministrisgan sxva Sefasebas ar veli, Tumca erTi dRe mainc Tu SeZlebs quCaSi dgomas da karavSi gaTenebas, Cems sityvebs ukan waviReb mis SesaZleblobebze. TiTqmis oTxi Tvea, rac quCaSi vdgavarT, magaliTad, baTumSi, aq gacilebiT adre daiwyo protesti, studentebma daiwyes, TbilisSi asSvidi dRea xalxi quCaSi dgas da, am mxriv, istoria iwereba, gamomdinare iqidan, rom aravis axsovs rusTaveli yoveldRiurad, intensiurad gadaketili yofiliyos. es Sedegs aucileblad gamoiRebs. nawilobriv ukve gamoiRo Sedegi – dasavleTs vaCvenebT, rom am qveyanaSi usamarTlobas ar SeveguebiT.
– eqspertebi acxadeben, rom opoziciam mZlavri prodasavluri koalicia unda Seqmnas da masSi arasaparlamento partiebi gaaerTianos. ras fiqrobT?
– opozicia erTiania, calkeuli partiebis mimarT kiTxvebi gaCnda dafinansebasTan dakavSirebiT, magram, saboloo jamSi, mTavar sakiTxebze erTiania. mTavari aq iyo boikoti, anu parlamentSi arSesvla. mmarTveli partiis garda aWaris umaRles sabWoSi aravin aris, rac Zalian mniSvnelovania. saerTaSoriso Tanamegobrobac xedavs, rom protestis garda boikotic xorcieldeba parlamentis mimarT, anu parlamenti aris erTpartiuli. rac Seexeba arasaparlamento opozicias, ki gadavlaxeT barieri, magram Cvenc arasaparlamento opozicia varT, vakeTebT erT saqmes da, saboloo jamSi, Cveni brZola Sedegiani aRmoCndeba.
– rogor xedavT salome zurabiSvilis perspeqtivas opoziciis gamaerTianeblis rolSi?
– salome zurabiSvilis roli saintereso aRmoCnda. uwin, roca mmarTveli partiis xedvebiT moRvaweobda, mis mimarT Zalian kritikuli viyavi, magram roca gadamwyveti momenti dadga, salome zurabiSvilma swori gadawyvetileba miiRo, sworad icvala feri da ruseTisken mimaval gzas ar daadga. am mxriv, swori Sexvedrebi dagegma saerTaSoriso TanamegobrobasTan, mokled, maSvel rgolad mogvevlina. imedia, samomavlodac misi roli aRmoCndeba mniSvnelovani, anu komunikaciebi sxvadasxva qveyanasTan, gansakuTrebiT safrangeTi unda aRiniSnos am mimarTebiT. miuxedavad imisa, rom salome zurabiSvili ar aris Cveni koaliciis wevri, is saqarTvelos mexuTe prezidenti iyo, mas warmatebas vusurveb am brZolaSi, magram ver vpatiob im gancxadebebs, rac man warsulSi gaakeTa da sakmaod didi kritikac daimsaxura amis gamo.
– opozicia ki aimedebs mosaxleobas xelaxali arCevnebis moaxloebiT, magram xelisufleba TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebze saubrobs. . .
– am qveyanaSi mmarTvelma Zalam arCevnebi mokla. manam, sanam struqturulad ar Seicvleba cesko da, aWaris SemTxvevaSi, usko, aseve, sanam struqturulad ar Seicvleba Sinagan saqmeTa saministro, romelic Tavidan bolomde CarTulia arCevnebis winaswar gayalbebaSi, am status-kvoTi da politpatimrebis fonze arCevnebSi gasvla warmoudgenelia. axal arCevnebze unda vifiqroT, es iqneba TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebze mibmuli arCevnebi Tu calke, amis Tqma Znelia, Cans, rom danebebas es xalxi ar apirebs, istoria iwereba qveyanaSi. darwmunebuli var, xelaxal arCevnebSi mogviwevs brZola da ara TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebSi.
– sagareo sakiTxsac SevexoT, ra stadiaSia dRes qarTul-amerikuli urTierTobebi?
– dResdReobiT qarTul-amerikuli urTierTobebi arc ise saxarbieloa. warmoudgenlad mimaCnia, rom aSS-ma aRiaros mmarTveli partiis mier gayalbebuli arCevnebi. prezidenti trampi iqneba, baideni Tu obama, es arafers cvlis, amerika demokratiuli qveyanaa, iq kargi da cudi prezidentebic viciT, es subieqturi Sefasebis nawilia, Tumca demokratia aris am qveynisTvis upirvelesi. amitom vfiqrob, rom mmarTveli gundis mier gayalbebuli arCevnebi araTu aSS-isgan, aramed arcerTi normaluri qveynisgan ar iqneba aRiarebuli. rac Seexeba sagareo saqmeTa ministr maka boWoriSvilis da aSS-is elCis Sexvedras, Cemi azriT, momavalSi ufro kargad gamoCndeba am Sexvedris detalebi. darwmunebuli var, rogorc politpatimrebis gaTavisuflebaze, aseve, xelaxali arCevnebis daniSvnaze iqneboda saubari.
– dabolos, ruseT-ukrainis omis Sedegi ramdenad gansazRvravs msoflio wesrigs da ra elis saqarTvelos?
– ukrainaSi dRes wydeba msoflios dRis wesrigi. zelenskis roli am mxriv mniSvnelovania. ukrainelma xalxma aCvena, raoden didi mniSvneloba aqvs ruseTTan brZolas. am brZolaSi ra roli aqvs saqarTvelos? patara qveynis warmomadgenelTa SesaZleblobebi gamoikveTa, bevri qarTvelis sicocxle Seewira am oms, Zalian bevri qarTveli iq dResac ibrZvis. ukrainis gamarjveba niSnavs, rom ruseTi Sesustdeba da Cveni qveynis ganviTarebasac xeli ar SeeSleba. darwmunebuli var, ukraina gauZlebs am zewolas da miiyvans saqmes bolomde, anu SeinarCunebs saxelmwifoebriobas da, sabolood, evrokavSiris sruluflebiani wevri gaxdeba.