
გლობალური აქტორები – „საჭადრაკო დაფასთან“. . .
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
rogor aisaxeba ruseT-ukrainis omi evropasa da maT Soris, saqarTvelos momavalze, rogor warimarTeba aSS-ruseTis urTierTobebi da axal msoflio wesrigSi ra roli eqnebaT globalur aqtorebs? am da sxva aqtualur sakiTxebze gvesaubreba bsu-is iuridiul da socialur mecnierebaTa fakultetis dekani, saerTaSoriso samarTlis specialisti levan jayeli.
– rogor afasebT trampis da zelenskis Sexvedras?
– pirvel rigSi, unda aRvniSno, rom msgavsi formatis diskusia ovalur kabinetSi istorias da diplomatias ar axsovs. . . rac moxda, unda Sefasdes sifrTxiliT. aSS ar aris rigiTi saxelmwifo, mis qmedebebs yovelTvis mohyveba Sedegebi da savaraudod, SesaZloa, aseTi ram sxva liderebma, saxelmwifoebma gaimeoron da gamoiyenon sakuTari interesebisTvis. cxadia, ar aris mosawoni, rac ovalur kabinetSi moxda, mxareebi valdebuli arian, pativi scen erTmaneTis suverenitets. politikis eqspertebi sxvadasxvagvarad afaseben am sakiTxs, zogi zelenskis qomagobs, zogi ki tramps, amitom es msoflmxedvelobis sakiTxia, Tumca samarTlebrivad aseTi ram ar unda momxdariyo.
– rogorc cnobilia, trampma ukrainas samxedro daxmareba SeuCera. . .
– es gamomdinareobs aSS-is suverenuli uflebamosilebiT, am mxriv raime mdgradi saerTaSoriso xelSekruleba ar arsebobs, romelic daavaldebulebs aSS-s, mxari dauWiros ukrainas da moamaragos is iaraRiT. Tu amerikis poziciidan SevxedavT am sakiTxs, ukrainasTan dakavSirebiT mas gaaCnia Tavisi interesebi, am etapze – mineralebis xelSi Cagdeba. Sesabamisad, surs aiZulos ukraina, xeli moaweros xelSekrulebas. es amerikis strategiul mizans warmoadgens trampis administraciis pirobebSi. aSS, rogorc yovelTvis, sakuTari ekonomikuri, politikuri Tu sxva interesebidan gamomdinare, aseT qmedebebs axorcielebs. gadaxedeT aSS-is istorias, is yvelafers akeTebs mxolod Tavisi erovnuli interesebidan gamomdinare, ukraina amisTvis mzad unda yofiliyo. amerikas veravin daelaparakeba ise, rogorc zelenskim misca Tavs uflebas Tumca ver vityviT, rom es arasworad gaakeTa.
– ras gulisxmobT?
– saxelmwifos liderebic adamianebi arian, miT umetes zelenski Zalian mZime wnexis da gamowvevebis winaSea. Zneli iyo, ar gamosuliyo mwyobridan da Tqva is, rac Tqva… faqtia, rom ukraina garkveul CixSia da iZulebuli iqneba, miiRos is pirobebi, rasac aSS ukarnaxebs. ukve gavrcelda informacia, rom aSS da ukraina mineralebze axal xelSekrulebas moaweren xels… aRsaniSnavia makronis gancxadeba, rom evrokavSiri ar miatovebs ukrainas ruseTTan pirispir da samxedro SeiaraRebiTac daexmareba. safrangeTis prezidentma Tqva, rom ukrainis usafrTxoeba evropuli kontinentis usafrTxoebis interesebSia – rac mravlismTqmeli gancxadebaa.
– ukrainis prezidentma ganacxada, rom trampma putinis ruseTi saerTaSoriso izolaciidan gamoiyvana, ras fiqrobT?
– ase ar vfiqrob, imitom, rom izolaciidan aSS-s ruseTi ar gamouyvania… dadebiTad vafaseb am diskusiis, dialogis dawyebas, Sexvedrebi aucileblad unda gagrZeldes, radgan adre Tu gvian es safrTxeebi da mSvidobis xelmyofi faqtorebi unda davides nulze, msofliom unda amoisunTqos, unda daisadguros mSvidobam, mSvidobis gareSe ar Sewydeba uaryofiTi dinebebi ekonomikaSi, politikaSi da saerTaSoriso urTierTobebSi, rac aRelvebs yvela saxelmwifos, yvela moqalaqes.
– alaparakdnen trampisa da putinis Sexvedraze, rogorc cnobilia, ruseTis lideri haagis saerTaSoriso sasamarTlom daadanaSaula ukrainis winaSe Cadenil danaSaulSi. Tqveni azri amis Sesaxeb. . .
– aq pasuxi Zalian martivia, ruseTi da aSS ar arian romis statutis monawileni, anu romis statutis iurisdiqcia maTTan ar vrceldeba, Sesabamisad, aSS da ruseTi ar arian valdebuli, aRasrulon is pirobebi, romelic haagis sasamarTlos mier iqna gacemuli, Sesabamisad, ver CaiTvaleba es raime darRvevad. saerTaSoriso samarTlTan winaaRmdegobaSi im SemTxvevaSi CaiTvaleboda Sexvedra, Tu romelime saxelmwifos romis statuti eqneboda ratificirebuli.
– mas Semdeg, rac trampa, garkveulwilad, antievropuli gancxadebebi gaaJRera, saubari daiwyo evropis axal arqiteqturaze. am mxriv, safrangeTs, germaniasa da did britaneTs ra datvirTva eqneba?
– am mimarTebiT ramdenime konteqsti unda gaviTvaliswinoT. pirveli – evropis usafrTxoebis axal arqiteqturaze saubari dagvianebulia, evrokavSirs Tavis droze unda efiqra am mimarTulebaze, maT unda hqonodaT evropuli Tavdacvis raRac sistema mainc, es gamowveva ramdenjerme ukve ganmeorda. trampi ukve meored gaxda aSS-is prezidenti da is ar uSvebs SesaZleblobas, rom evropas ar Seaxsenos is wvlili, romelic Seaqvs amerikas evropis usafrTxoebaSi. yoveli aseTi gancxadebebis Semdeg evropis adgilze davfiqrdebodi Tavdacvis axal SesaZleblobebze, am mxriv fiqri unda dawyebuliyo didi xnis winaT, dRes ukve raRac monaxazi da fundamenti iqneboda seriozuli gadawyvetilebisTvis. TavisTavad, am struqturaSi wamyvani adgili eqneboda evropis iseT saxelmwifoebs, rogoricaa safrangeTi, germania, didi britaneTi da ara marto es saxelmwifoebi. italia, espaneTi da poloneTic miiRebdnen masSi monawileobas, vinaidan dRevandeli samxedro potenciali, SeiraRebis maxasiaTeblebi ar iZleva imis garantias, rom konfliqtis mimdinareoba maTac ar Seexeba. savsebiT SesaZlebelia, nebismier SeiaraRebul konfliqtSi CaTreul iqnas sxva kontinentis saxelmwifo da amerikis faqtori amis TvalsaCino magaliTia, Sesabamisad, amis winapiroba didi xania arsebobs, Tumca kargi iqneba, Tu amaze konkretulad dafiqrdebian da daiwyeben muSaobas. rogorc viciT, ukraina Zalian kargi faqtori aRmoCnda am sakiTxSi, – gasul kviras evrokavSirma mniSvnelovani gadawyvetilebebi miiRo, kerZod, 800-miliardiani gegma waradgina Tavdacvis industriisTvis, saidanac ukrainac miiRebs garkveul daxmarebas.
– bolo periodSi saubaria axali saerTaSoriso wesrigis Seqmnaze, ras fiqrobT?
– vfiqrob, ukve momwifebulia es sakiTxi da laparakidan saqmezea gadasuli, vinaidan is saerTaSoriso wesrigi, romelic meore msoflio omis Semdeg damyarda, amowurulia, araefeqturia da ver uzrunvelyofs miznebsa da amocanebs, romelic meore msoflio omis dros gamarjvebulma qveynebma dausaxes gaeros. dRes, rogorc xedavT, realuri politika, realuri saerTaSoriso urTierTobebi dafuZnebulia calkeuli saxelmwifoebis aqtivobaze, subieqtur interesebze. sxvaTa Soris, sxvadasxva mwvave procesis mowesrigebaSi saerTaSoriso organizaciebi efeqturad ver monawileoben, maT aqtivobas raime SesamCnevi Sedegi ar mohyveba, da, amdenad, TavisTavad, mosaZebnia axali formati, dasamkvidrebelia axali wesrigi, romelic TiToeul saxelmwifos konkretul CarCoebSi moaqcevs, gansazRvravs saerTaSoriso axal valdebulebebs da pasuxismgeblobebs. Zalian bevri ram iqneba gasaTvaliswinebeli. imedi maqvs, rom naklebi sisxlis fasad morigdebian msoflios wamyvani saxelmwifoebi, miusxdebian molaparakebis magidas da axal msoflio wesrigze SeTanxmdebian.
– am axal msoflio wesrigSi ra roli eqneba aSS-s, evrokavSirs, CineTs da ruseTs?
– faqtia, rom wamyvani saxelmwifoebis gareSe msoflios axal wesrigze laparakis iniciatoric ki aravin iqneba, aRniSnuli saxelmwifoebis gareSe amaze saubaric ki ver moxerxdeba, magram aq mxolod es qveynebi ar arian, aq aucileblad CaerTveba arabuli samyaro, irani, TurqeTi, metic, CrdiloeT koreasTanac mosaZebnia saerTo ena, imitom, rom ar SeiZleba msoflioSi arsebobdes gamonaklisebi saerTaSoriso wesrigis gverdiT. bevri niuansi iqneba gasaTvaliswinebeli, magram faqtia, rom amJamad arsebuli msoflio wesrigis gagrZeleba saxelmwifoebs Soris SeuZlebelia da miuRebelia, rac ufro male mivlen am gadawyvetilebamde da miusxdebian molaparakebis magidas axali msoflio wesrigis Seqmnis mizniT, miT ukeTesi iqneba msofliosTvis.
– Cvens qveyanazec visaubroT, ramdenad mniSvnelovania evrokavSirisa da aSS-is mxardaWera saqarTvelos saxelmwifoebriobis ganmtkicebaSi?
– pirdapiri mniSvnelobiT, absoluturad damokidebuli varT saerTaSoriso mSvidobaze, Cveni partniori saxelmwifoebis stabilurobaze, maT mxardaWeraze, vinaidan, unda vaRiaroT, rom am etapze sakuTari ZalebiT ver uzrunvelvyofT Cveni erovnuli interesebis legalizebas, mis dacvas, Cven yoveldRiurad araprognozirebad viTarebaSi vimyofebiT da mTlianad damokidebuli varT saerTaSoriso mxardaWeraze. amgvarad, CvenTvis Zalian mniSvnelovania urTierTobebis aRdgena da ganviTareba ruseTTan, cxadia, erovnuli interesebis gaTvaliswinebiT, aseve, ra Tqma unda, kargi urTierTobis awyoba evrokavSirTan, aSS-Tan. aucileblad oqros Sualedi unda vipovoT, Cveni mizeziT ar davapirispiroT ruseTi, evrokavSiri da aSS da ar SevqmnaT iseTi situacia, romelic CixSi mogvaqcevs isev Cven, anu keTilgonierebas unda movuxmoT. Cven gvmarTebs im moqmedebebis ganxorcieleba, rac ar gamoiwvevs provocirebas, ar Seuqmnis mizezs sxvadasxva saxelmwifos, gansakuTrebiT Cvens mezoblebs, rom TavianTi erovnuli interesebi daicvan Cvens xarjze. Cveni erovnuli interesebidan gamomdinare, valdebuli varT, ar wavaxalisoT saxelmwifoebi Cvens winaaRmdeg, sifrTxile gvmarTebs, unda movZebnoT Sexebis is wertili ruseTTan, evrokavSirTan da amerikasTan, romelic TavisTavad iqneba garantiis mimcemi Cveni saxelmwifoebriobisTvis.
– dabolos, ra gavlena eqneba ruseT-ukrainis omis Sedegs evropaze da, maT Soris, saqarTveloze?
– omi, SeiaraRebuli konfliqti yovelTvis xelyofs yvelafers didebuls, pozitiurs, is gvaclis megobrebs, aryevs stabilurobas, igive pirobebSi dabrunebas ki wlebi da didi resursebi sWirdeba. 21-e saukuneSi Cven ver viqnebiT mSvidad vercerTi konfliqtis pirobebSi, CvenTan axlos Tu Cvengan Sors, is mainc aisaxeba Cvenze. rogorc vTqvi, Cven damokidebuli varT Cveni partniori saxelmwifoebis mxardaWeraze, maT potencialze, resursebze. roca Cveni partniori qveynebis potenciali miemarTeba am konfliqtisken, misi mxardaWera Cven gvakldeba, Cvenc unda viyoT diplomatiur urTierTobebSi CarTuli, rom Sewydes yvela SeiaraRebuli konfliqti da mSvidobis pirobebSi gavagrZeloT TanamSromloba, erTmaneTis mxardaWera da im benefitebis miReba, mSvidobian Tanacxovrebas rom mohyveba. Cveni perspeqtiva, ganviTareba damokidebulia mezoblebis keTilganwyobaze, wamyvan qveynebTan savaWro TanamSromlobaze. 21-e saukuneSi aseTi procesebidan gandgoma aris Cveni qveynis da Cveni xalxis Ralati, radgan uaryofiTi movlenebi asaxvas poulobs msoflios nebismier saxelmwifoze.